Scaling

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TreestumpExhaustpipe
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Scaling

Post by TreestumpExhaustpipe » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:58 am

I have a drawing I want to scale, say 2x.
I do
1) select ALL (in my drawing)
2) Modify-> scale
3) I enter the amount, say 2.0 in the x coordination box, with Y-linked to automate.
4) I press ok and the designed is scaled and the result replaces the original.

However, when I use the measuring tool the dimensions measures still EXACTLY the same.

It seems that scaling is only done on the canvas and the dimensions are not scaled at all.

What am I doing wrong. ?


Linux
Qcad Version:
3.20.1.0 (3.20.1)
Internet:
QCAD.org
Build Date:
Apr 13 2018
Revision:
dd51609
Qt Version:
5.8.0
Architecture:
x86_64
Compiler:
gcc 4.8.1

CVH
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Posts: 1371
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:17 pm

Re: Scaling

Post by CVH » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:14 am

Hi,
Can't understand this ...
Can't reproduce this with the info given.
TreestumpExhaustpipe wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:58 am
4) I press ok and the designed is scaled and the result replaces the original.
You see it get larger, no?
Try 10x, you have to alter the zoom state, no?
TreestumpExhaustpipe wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:58 am
It seems that scaling is only done on the canvas
'canvas' is more as 'on paper'
Confirm ... Drawing in Model_Space

Otherwise we might need a file before and after ... :wink:

Regards,
CVH.

TreestumpExhaustpipe
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Re: Scaling

Post by TreestumpExhaustpipe » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:04 am

It seems to scale in the main window, but as soon as I edit a block nothing was scaled.
The problem is inside the block it seems.

So If I select all and scale the entire design and then go to any block in the design, when I open the block and measure, it is still the old dimension.
this is not really workable as I have to explode and recreate blocks in order to get the new dimensions in the block.

CVH
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Re: Scaling

Post by CVH » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:26 am

Hi,
You didn't mention Blocks ... :wink:

Scaling of selected Blocks is done by the scale factor of the Block Reference.
Dimension in a Block are scaled by visual size and properties but the measured value inside the block remains the same.
If you add the dimension in Model_Space then the value is that of the scaled size.

Regards,
CVH

TreestumpExhaustpipe
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Re: Scaling

Post by TreestumpExhaustpipe » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:45 am

I could repeat the error time and time again.

then I decided to make a video.
I closed the design and Qcad to start from scratch. loaded the design, and now suddenly it also scales in the Blocks !!

So now I cannot replicate it, but I would like to know how I triggered that behavior.
There definitely is something triggered or maybe memory went corrupt or something.

Best to keep this thread in mind if someone else reports the same. If there was not any corruption of memory or such, there definitely is a very sneaky bug that gets triggered somehow.

This problem literally took hours of my time, but now it is magically gone after reloading the design.

CVH
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Re: Scaling

Post by CVH » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 am

Perfectly reproducible ...
In fact 'Intended behavior' I suppose.

Funny behavior with 'Edit in Place'!
Did you explode the block?


Cheers,
CVH
Attachments
ScaleBlock.dxf
(102.02 KiB) Downloaded 86 times

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Husky
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Re: Scaling

Post by Husky » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:53 am

CVH wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 am
In fact 'Intended behavior' I suppose.
No, I don't think so. I would consider that clearly as a bug. Behavior like that would be in my opinion illogical and previously QCAD Version haven't behaved that way too. It effects even the block insert scale in dimensions ...

I encourage you to file a bugreport.
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CVH
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Re: Scaling

Post by CVH » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:57 am

@ TreestumpExhaustpipe:
Did you use 'Edit in place' recently?

Since 2:56 am this morning I can't run QCAD in debugger mode any longer :evil:
Plain QCAD blinks the Option Toolbar of 'Edit in place' very short but continues .... :roll:
My copy of QCAD/CAM Trial doesn't have that feature yet.
DebuggerModeError.zip
(756.68 KiB) Downloaded 72 times
Now, I am definitely stuck with coding :(
Oh well, lets wipe the system .... again.

@ Husky:
Something like this?
ScaleBlock_v2.dxf
(109.35 KiB) Downloaded 76 times
ScaledBlockDims.png
ScaledBlockDims.png (18.01 KiB) Viewed 2351 times

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andrew
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Re: Scaling

Post by andrew » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:21 am

Yes, this is intended and expected behavior (i.e. in line with other CADs).

A block is a collection of entities at a fixed scale that is chosen when the block is created. Let's say a 100mm line with a dimension of that 100mm line with a label "100". To change the scale of the block, edit the block and scale its contents.

A block reference is an insertion of a block at a given scale. All entities and aspects of the block are scaled with that scale factor (or those scale factors in x and y). To change the scale of a block reference, you can use the scale tool or the property editor to adjust the scale factor(s) of the block reference.

Previous versions (< 3.24.0) behaved differently (i.e. wrong). This has to do with how blocks were scaled in previous versions (by scaling coordinates) vs. how they are scaled in the current version (by applying a transformation when displaying). This change also allows proper support for non-uniform scaling in QCAD.

The "odd" behavior when editing a block inline is caused by the temporary explosion of the block and also intended / expected behavior (in line with other CADs).

CVH
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Re: Scaling

Post by CVH » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:34 am

@ Andrew,
andrew wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:21 am
Previous versions (< 3.24.0) behaved differently (i.e. wrong).
Now I am lost :
The diff is obvious with 3.25.2 < > 3.25.2.7

... Going offline to clean for the DebuggerModeError
Seven hours or about ...

Regards,
CVH

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Husky
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Re: Scaling

Post by Husky » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:13 am

andrew wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:21 am
Yes, this is intended and expected behavior (i.e. in line with other CADs).
Well ... common sense should tell us that can't be right. Even when other CAD's do it on that way ...
andrew wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:21 am
A block reference is an insertion of a block at a given scale. All entities and aspects of the block are scaled with that scale factor (or those scale factors in x and y). To change the scale of a block reference, you can use the scale tool or the property editor to adjust the scale factor(s) of the block reference.
Obviously not ALL entities and aspects of the block are scaled. Dimensions values are ignored. That means basically we can't use dimension anymore in blocks because the value of the dimension doesn't follows the inserting scale rules or scales used in model_space. And to fix the wrong dimension I have to explode the block because I have no control over it within the property editor? Additional it is not using the same dimension settings regarding the Drawing Preferences. Oh yes, explode will fix that too.
Very hard for me to believe that is in line and "Standard" in the "CAD world". It feels to me like trowing away something what was hard earned over many years. Like walking backwards ...

Hopefully nobody has used in the past dims in his/her blocks ...

Husky-2021.01.05-05.png
older QCAD version
Husky-2021.01.05-05.png (14.69 KiB) Viewed 2338 times
Husky-2021.01.05-03.png
newer QCAD version
Husky-2021.01.05-03.png (11.45 KiB) Viewed 2338 times
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TreestumpExhaustpipe
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Re: Scaling

Post by TreestumpExhaustpipe » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:21 pm

I appreciate the answers, but must admit some are a bit over my head.
i am sorry if I stepped on something with this topic I should not have, but I am honest with what I experienced and stand by it.

It seems from what was said above is that I just need to explode the blocks as dimensions should not be used inside blocks. That can be troublesome, as to then doing the reverse and recreate a new block again might be severely troublesome as they can be extensive and difficult to pick out from the main design.

And yes, I did measure inside the blocks and used the tools there, as that i where the edits to blocks happen, and I thought that is normal as it was intuitive to do . From the posts it seems I have to NOT do that and treat blocks as immutable entities.

I still dont know why the repeatable problem disappeared when I reloaded the design though.

This all might have been just some temporary glitch not of QCAD's doing that wont bother anyone and a nothing burger or I used Blocks outside it's scope, what seems to be the case.

QCAD is great software. This is not critisism.

CVH
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Re: Scaling

Post by CVH » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:42 pm

CVH wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:34 am
Now I am lost :
The diff is obvious with 3.25.2 < &gt; 3.25.2.7
Or it was as created ... there is none in the picture!
And none in the file!

The 6 files that were open while I made ScaleBlock.dxf are all failing on boot in debugger mode.
It has something to do with 'Edit in place' ....
I admit, I swapped between drawings meanwhile, all those are affected.
I copied only the content to new files and killed the old.

With the new files booting in debugger mode doesn't fail any longer.
Never the less the system is cleaned and back up again.

I'll stick to the last paragraph here:
https://qcad.org/rsforum/viewtopic.php? ... 834#p30578

Cheers,
CVH

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