“Move / Copy” dialog improvement

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ouilogique
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“Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by ouilogique » Fri May 14, 2021 11:51 am

I am using the “Move / Copy” (MV) command quite a lot and I am a little bit annoyed that it requires so many clicks and has no keyboard shortcuts to select the correct radio button (at least on Mac).

What I suggest:

- Replace the radio buttons by simple buttons that trigger the action in one click or one keyboard shortcut.
- Remove the OK button.
- The last button used should be selected the next time so that the Enter key activates it.

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ryancousins
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by ryancousins » Fri May 14, 2021 2:07 pm

I have been thinking it would be great if move and copy were their own commands so it eliminates the dialog box for move and for copy you would only need to specify if you wanted more than one copy. Perhaps move would stay (MV) and (CP) would be repurposed as the command for the copy option rather than just the copy to the clipboard function it currently serves? Perhaps instead of a dialog box, there would be a field in the options toolbar to specify a number of copies other than 1 if desired. I'm just thinking out loud about all of this. :D

If you want to move something without the dialog box, you can just hold down with the mouse momentarily on an object and that will automatically invoke the move tool. You can also use Cut with Reference (RT), or Copy with Reference (RC), and then Paste (PS), but for whatever reason I never gravitate to those options and prefer the move/copy procedure.

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andrew
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by andrew » Fri May 14, 2021 5:23 pm

ouilogique wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:51 am
and has no keyboard shortcuts to select the correct radio button (at least on Mac).
You can use ⌘D, ⌘K and ⌘M to switch between the radio buttons.

I also tend to use the dialog free Edit > Cut with Reference or Copy with Reference and Paste rather than Move / Copy unless I need multiple copies.

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ryancousins
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by ryancousins » Fri May 14, 2021 5:44 pm

andrew wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 5:23 pm

You can use ⌘D, ⌘K and ⌘M to switch between the radio buttons.
Andrew, is this relatively new feature? I remember a thread from a little while back https://qcad.org/rsforum/viewtopic.php? ... log#p30196 that kind of touched on this but I didn't know you could use these shortcuts on a mac. Cool. 8)

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Husky
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by Husky » Fri May 14, 2021 6:24 pm

ryancousins wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:07 pm
I have been thinking it would be great if move and copy were their own commands so it eliminates the dialog box for move and for copy you would only need to specify if you wanted more than one copy.
How does dragging with the mouse or moving with arrow keys work for you? Most of the time I try to move with the mouse but that can be tricky. I would like to see it more stable with a shortcut like CTRL + mouse to take the try and error attempts out of the task. I'm sure my issue is just a fine motoric issue with the mouse but it sucks .... e_surprised

BTW: If I need a single copy "Duplicate" and Mouse / or Arrow keys works like a charm ...
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ryancousins
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by ryancousins » Fri May 14, 2021 6:41 pm

Husky wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 6:24 pm

How does dragging with the mouse or moving with arrow keys work for you?
I typically only drag to move with the mouse when the placement may not really matter like a text label or note in some cases. Or if I just want to temporarily move something out of the way I suppose. I'm more used to using MV and then choosing my reference point based on my situation. I have never used the arrows. Moving by dragging could be difficult if the pre-existing reference point isn't where is most conducive to precisely align the thing you're moving to its new location. I'm not sure if that is what you feel makes it tricky.
BTW: If I need a single copy "Duplicate" and Mouse / or Arrow keys works like a charm ...
That's a good trick. I use duplicate in drawing apps like Inkscape or Google Draw constantly so I should try that in QCAD.

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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by ouilogique » Fri May 14, 2021 7:32 pm

Well, I never thought that my request would get so much attention! Thank you all for your answers.


@ryancousins

I like the fact that there is only one command to copy and move. On AutoCAD I wasted a lot of time with the wrong command (copy instead of move or move instead of copy).

I’m not a big fan of the copy and cut command in the edit menu because the process of moving is split into 2 steps: first you have to copy or cut and then paste. I prefer the way the MV command works. The only thing I don’t like about it is the last dialog which takes too long to click.

Hover on an object works on a single object or on objects that totally overlap but not on separated objects. So that’s not really usable for me.


@andrew

⌘D, ⌘K and ⌘M don’t work for me on QCAD 3.26.2, macOS Big Sur 11.3. Will it be available in a future release?
I tried it on Ubuntu and it works with alt-s, alt-g and alt-m. It depends on the language, here it is in French (s = supprimer, g = garder, m = multiple)


@Husky

Dragging with the mouse doesn’t work well as in QCAD it is not possible to drag multiple objects unless they overlap. And anyway, as it is CAD drawing I need precise reference and end position so dragging alone do not seem feasible (unless I am missing something).

Moving with arrow keys is OK but still I don’t understand how to move precisely from a reference point to an end point. It is also not very convenient for long distances.




My question is about the number of clicks needed in the MV dialog. Is it possible to rethink the design? I really think that the radio buttons could be replaced by standard buttons (with keyboard shortcuts assigned). That would be already a big improvement.

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Husky
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by Husky » Fri May 14, 2021 9:23 pm

ouilogique wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:32 pm
@Husky

Dragging with the mouse doesn’t work well as in QCAD it is not possible to drag multiple objects unless they overlap.
Actually you are able to drag multiple objects, even without overlapping ... :wink:
ouilogique wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:32 pm
And anyway, as it is CAD drawing I need precise reference and end position so dragging alone do not seem feasible (unless I am missing something).
I agree. But, depending on where you click the selection the reference will jump to the closest "basic reference" like end, center etc etc..
ouilogique wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:32 pm
Moving with arrow keys is OK but still I don’t understand how to move precisely from a reference point to an end point. It is also not very convenient for long distances.
It's a different strategy. One arrow key stroke moves the selection a certain amount of units. How many units are used can be controlled by you within the Application Preferences.

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ouilogique wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:32 pm
My question is about the number of clicks needed in the MV dialog. Is it possible to rethink the design? I really think that the radio buttons could be replaced by standard buttons (with keyboard shortcuts assigned). That would be already a big improvement.
Now you lost me! How will you simplify or improve this simple setup ...

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... or could it be that you never tried the "Non dialog" tool option? e_surprised

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... I need a coffee!
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ryancousins
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by ryancousins » Sat May 15, 2021 1:19 am

Husky wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:23 pm

... or could it be that you never tried the "Non dialog" tool option? e_surprised
Mind blown! I totally forgot about that setting. It seems no matter how long I poke around in the applications preferences I eventually forget about some of the settings in there. I like the no dialog box option. :D

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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by CVH » Sat May 15, 2021 3:10 am

All,

I have/had the same problems with MV.
Have read the recurring comments from users on MV.
Have used it without dialog, what only doesn't requires the OK click.
There are pros and there are cons ... Two prejudices ... Two camps ...
One can't have it both ways.

Still, for myself, in about 25% of the cases that I need to move or copy things from a well known reference to another ...
... the 'wrong' method is executed as the one intended.
Simply because I assumed that my previous use was 'Move' or that it was 'Copy' without verifying.
This happens more if one swaps a lot between methods.

I was used to having it as 3 separate instructions ...
... Old habits don't go away that easy. :wink:

I said: '.. have/had ..'
Knowing a little about scripting ... I made 'Move' persistent and I use MV without dialog.
Now MV is always 'Move' unless I choose to 'Copy' or 'Copy multiple'.


Regards,
CVH
Last edited by CVH on Sat May 15, 2021 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ouilogique
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by ouilogique » Sat May 15, 2021 2:17 pm

... or could it be that you never tried the "Non dialog" tool option? e_surprised
No, I didn’t know this option exists. I tried it and without the dialog, MV suppresses the original (“move” behavior). I wonder why the three options (move, copy, copy-multi) do not appear on top left toolbar as it is the case for the LG function for example. It would be an excellent solution to choose the behavior at the beginning of the MV process. It would mean less clicks most of the time.

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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by CVH » Sat May 15, 2021 3:21 pm

Hi,
ouilogique wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 2:17 pm
I wonder why the three options (move, copy, copy-multi) do not appear on top left toolbar as it is the case for the LG function for example.
The major difference would be that LG doesn't require a selection.
Beside that:

On the toolbar it is not tri-state like LG ...
It is OR 'Move' OR 'Copy' => 1 Toolbar button.
When it is 'Copy' it is N times => 1 Toolbar RmathLineEdit field.

The dialog is a bit different:
There it is indeed tri-state => 3x auto exclusive radio buttons. (Rather common)
Copy = 1 time (Additional option)
Copy multiple = N times => RmathLineEdit field.

Objectively count the number of clicks when comparing and/or proposing a feature.
Average that out with how many times that users would use the methods.

I move a lot, an other user may copy a lot. :wink:

In any way, one can always file a feature request here:
https://www.ribbonsoft.com/bugtracker/ 8)

Regards,
CVH

zroo3d
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by zroo3d » Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:16 am

Move is technically copy with deleting previous position. But having 1 command is mentally taxing. I need to check if copy is selected. So I need to look. If I don`t I end up with copying when I want to move and vice versa. In every case I`m slower than with 2 separate commands. Move is arguably the most used command in CAD. Every millisecond counts.

My intuition is to have move without copy; copy command that puts a copy with every click (no dialog) and array that is copy with set amount of copies (with dialog). But maybe I`m just an Autocad dinosaur. :)

I reckon move can stay with copy function for compatibility sake. I`d like to have separate copy command. Sure, copy with reference point works, but requires a paste command. Remember - cognitive load. Milliseconds. B)

Having a button to enable/disable dialog box for move, copy, rotate and scale in options toolbar would be nice.
Also I`d much appreciate move, copy, rotate, scale and delete in right click dialog box. 2 character shortcuts are painful to me. :(

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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by CVH » Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:38 pm

zroo3d wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:16 am
Having a button to enable/disable dialog box for move, copy, rotate and scale in options toolbar would be nice.
Like pointed out ... See Application Preferences
zroo3d wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:16 am
But having 1 command is mentally taxing. I need to check if copy is selected.
Agreed ... That's why I made 'Move' persistent.

Regards,
CVH

zroo3d
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Re: “Move / Copy” dialog improvement

Post by zroo3d » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:38 am

Thanks for you reply, CVH!
CVH wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:38 pm
Like pointed out ... See Application Preferences
True. What I meant is add it here:
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CVH wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:38 pm
Agreed ... That's why I made 'Move' persistent.
I don`t know what do you mean. :(

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