[Solved]Viewport Scale Help

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RMK-Designs
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Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:21 pm

[Solved]Viewport Scale Help

Post by RMK-Designs » Sat May 20, 2023 4:29 pm

Hi, I am having issues with viewport scaling. I updated the software to the current version Pro 3.28.1. I am on Windows 11 Home. Before the update I was using 3.27.1.
The issue is when I set the viewport scale on the option bar to 1/4"=1'-0" scale it changes to decimals after a while (see screen shots). I would prefer it to stay at 1/4"=1'-0". The dimension settings in the drawing preferences are set to architectural. I have tried fractional with the same results. Why is the scale showing decimals? This is not what I need to quickly tell the scale of the drawing. There must be a new setting as this did not happen with the previous version, but I am unable to find it.
I have also attached the drawing in case a setting needs to be checked. Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.
Attachments
Viewport Scale Set to This.png
Viewport Scale Set to This.png (70.55 KiB) Viewed 5261 times
Viewport Scale Reverts to Decimals.png
Viewport Scale Reverts to Decimals.png (82.05 KiB) Viewed 5261 times
Viewport Scale Detail.dwg
(20.62 KiB) Downloaded 180 times
Last edited by RMK-Designs on Mon May 22, 2023 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CVH
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:17 pm

Re: Viewport Scale Help

Post by CVH » Sat May 20, 2023 10:33 pm

Hi,
I think that you refer to the Drawing Scale, aka the paper scale, in your images.

The viewport 'Scale' and Viewport 'Rotation' options are displayed on the Options Toolbar prior to defining the Viewport area.
On placement in paper preview mode these 2 tool options are displayed later than the Drawing Preferences button.
Both displayed scale factors are called 'Scale' but the tooltips are different.
ViewportScale.png
ViewportScale.png (4.94 KiB) Viewed 5234 times

After placement of the viewport the 'Add Viewport (VT)' tool terminates and the related options are removed from the Options Toolbar.
The viewport Scale is then a property of the Viewport drawing object.
RMK-Designs wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 4:29 pm
1/4"=1'-0"
Most input field in QCAD can do all kinds of calculations, from simple arithmetic to full blown mathematical equations.
1/4"=1'-0" is simply an equation and the resulting scale factor is 0.0208(333...).

Indeed, the textual notation may stick a while but at some point it will be renewed and replaced by the stored scale factor.
In the long run there is not much that can be done at that. :wink:

Regards,
CVH

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Husky
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Re: Viewport Scale Help

Post by Husky » Sun May 21, 2023 7:04 am

Hi RMK-Designs,

RMK-Designs wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 4:29 pm
Hi, I am having issues with viewport scaling. I updated the software to the current version Pro 3.28.1. I am on Windows 11 Home. Before the update I was using 3.27.1.
The issue is when I set the viewport scale on the option bar to 1/4"=1'-0" scale it changes to decimals after a while (see screen shots). I would prefer it to stay at 1/4"=1'-0". The dimension settings in the drawing preferences are set to architectural. I have tried fractional with the same results. Why is the scale showing decimals? This is not what I need to quickly tell the scale of the drawing. There must be a new setting as this did not happen with the previous version, but I am unable to find it.
I have also attached the drawing in case a setting needs to be checked. Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.
I'm confused by this description and how the drawing is set up - maybe we can sort it out together ...

Your example drawing contains 2 Viewports in 1"=1" and 4"=1",
The paper scale is 1/4"=1'-0" what is equal to 0.0208 or ~1:48,
You are talking about viewport scales but the screenshots and the mentioned decimal number are according to the chosen paper scale ...

May I ask you why you scale down the paper and then scale up the viewport to compensate that? Why making it more complicated than it has to be ...?

When dealing with viewports for printing common praxis (and much easier to handle!) would be to keep the paper scale always in 1" = 1" (1:1) and then scale only those viewports.
In your case:
Paper: 1" = 1"
Viewport 1: 1/4"=1'0"
Viewport 2: 1"=1'0"

If you scale the paper AND compensate that scale with a viewport scale you are the only one who can reconstruct the procedure for a modified print with additional viewports.

BTW: The detail notation (SCALE: 1"=1'0") for AI is correct - how did you calculate that? I ask because the viewport for that needed to be created with a 4" = 1" scale. The other one has a notation of SCALE: 1/4"=1'0" U.O.N. but is created with a 1" = 1" viewport. What I'm trying to say with this observation - would it not be much easier to keep the paper in 1"=1" and take the scale (notation) directly from how it was used to create those Viewports? No math needed ... :wink:
RMK-Designs wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 4:29 pm
Why is the scale showing decimals? This is not what I need to quickly tell the scale of the drawing. There must be a new setting as this did not happen with the previous version, but I am unable to find it.
Yes, I hear you! I see it the same way and I've ask a few times that the scale in QCAD will be displayed accordingly to the chosen format (Decimal, Fraction etc.). However - I believe that is a big mathematically deal and not on the top of a todo list ... :(
In my case I have to deal witch all formats. Factor, (preferred!), decimal or fractional. To keep quick track of it I maintain an Excel cheat sheet what keeps growing and growing ... :(
Work smart, not hard: QCad Pro
Win10/64, QcadPro, QcadCam version: Current.
If a thread is considered as "solved" please change the title of the first post to "[solved] Title..."

CVH
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Re: Viewport Scale Help

Post by CVH » Sun May 21, 2023 9:31 am

Husky wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 7:04 am
Yes, I hear you! I see it the same way and I've ask a few times that the scale in QCAD will be displayed accordingly to the chosen format (Decimal, Fraction etc.). However - I believe that is a big mathematically deal and not on the top of a todo list ...
A Viewport scale of 1/4"=1'-0" is exactly 1:48 and exactly 0.0208333... and that is an endless repetitive value.
I even think that it is handled in mm and then it is 0.25*25.4/304.8 what is exactly the same.

In the Option Toolbar this is displayed rounded to 4 decimal positions as '0.0208' but it is stored in full floating point notation.

How it is displayed in the Property Editor may vary according the precision preference.
See: Application Preferences .. Widgets .. Property Editor
e.g. as '0.02083333' when maxed out to 8 digits.

There is no easy way back from 0.0208333... to the original fraction especially because it is 1/4" based.
The reciprocal is 1:48.0000000000001 and if we knew it then it would be ~0.25:12 what is ~1/4":12" with units and what is also equal to 1/4":1'0".
But not all dropdown list fractions are 1/4" based.

Remind also that the dropdown list fractions are customized list in QCAD, there is no fixed DXF reference for them.
In the long run one has to store a decimal scale factor to work with.

Last but not least: It is not a big mathematically deal as explained above:
Viewport rotation is stored as a QCAD custom Viewport property: Here it was -90 degrees.

Code: Select all

1001
QCAD
1000
rotation:-1.570796326795
And that can be textual.

Regards,
CVH

RMK-Designs
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Posts: 20
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Re: Viewport Scale Help

Post by RMK-Designs » Mon May 22, 2023 3:38 pm

May I ask you why you scale down the paper and then scale up the viewport to compensate that? Why making it more complicated than it has to be ...?
Thank you CVH and Husky for all your help. I am embarrassed to say that I have been doing this for many years completely wrong. I thought I was scaling the viewport but instead was scaling the paper. As I now know it is a much more difficult process. Which by the way was the only thing I was not completely happy with in this software. Turns out it was me screwing this up! Thank you for educating me.

I had seen a post by Husky (https://ribbonsoft.com/rsforum/viewtopic.php?t=7028) that showed 2 scales and was told to use the viewport scale not paper scale (screen shot attached). Both scales are no longer available in the print preview tool bar, so I thought currently it is the viewport scale. Turns out the scale for the viewport is in the viewport tool bar tooltip, same as every other tool, which I did not think to look at. If I had it would be much easier to set viewports, dimensions, and text, which I have had to scale to make them look right.
BTW: The detail notation (SCALE: 1"=1'0") for AI is correct - how did you calculate that? I ask because the viewport for that needed to be created with a 4" = 1" scale. The other one has a notation of SCALE: 1/4"=1'0" U.O.N. but is created with a 1" = 1" viewport. What I'm trying to say with this observation - would it not be much easier to keep the paper in 1"=1" and take the scale (notation) directly from how it was used to create those Viewports? No math needed ... :wink:
I place the first viewport and scale it with the scale in the print preview tool bar (which turns out to be the paper scale). Then each additional view port is scaled up (in the property editor), in this case 4 times larger. That gives me the 1”=1’0” scale.
As for the decimal I will add the decimal equivalent of the scale to my excel spread sheet of various scales.

I have one more question, what is the need to scale the paper if viewport can be scaled? I see no need to scale the paper. Thank you again for all the help.

RMK

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Husky
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Re: Viewport Scale Help

Post by Husky » Mon May 22, 2023 9:05 pm

RMK-Designs wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 3:38 pm
I have one more question, what is the need to scale the paper if viewport can be scaled? I see no need to scale the paper. Thank you again for all the help.
Even if we both think there is no need for a paper scale option in printing a Layout Block - maybe an other user has a different case of application and needs the paper scale because all of his/her viewports are created in 1" = 1" ... :wink:

There is no right or wrong on each approach - it depends always on what suits your needs best!
Work smart, not hard: QCad Pro
Win10/64, QcadPro, QcadCam version: Current.
If a thread is considered as "solved" please change the title of the first post to "[solved] Title..."

CVH
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Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:17 pm

Re: [Solved]Viewport Scale Help

Post by CVH » Sun May 28, 2023 6:59 am

Husky wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 7:04 am
I've ask a few times that the scale in QCAD will be displayed accordingly to the chosen format (Decimal, Fraction etc.). However - I believe that is a big mathematically deal and not on the top of a todo list ...
The explanation from Andrew dated 20.11.2018 23:17 can be found here:
https://qcad.org/bugtracker/index.php?d ... sk_id=1827
IMHO the Property Editor accepts the mentioned scale expressions in recent QCAD releases.
And the Viewport scale too: https://www.qcad.org/bugtracker/index.p ... sk_id=2349

The most recent (open) feature request:
https://qcad.org/bugtracker/index.php?d ... sk_id=2308
Husky wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 7:04 am
To keep quick track of it I maintain an Excel cheat sheet what keeps growing and growing ...
Seems that cheat sheet are the way to go: https://www.qcad.org/rsforum/viewtopic. ... 206#p36918


Regards,
CVH

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